Vintage Road Racing Association

While reviewing the endurance rules, the issue of bike substitution after the race has started was raised. The proposal is that substitution would be allowed with the following conditions; the replacement bike must use the same transponder and racing number, bike must have passed tech inspection before the race, and be of the same class or smaller class as the original bike. Mileage would be awarded only for the bike that takes the chequered flag.

Please post any comments, concerns or questions that you have on this proposal.

Is it safe to assume that the substitution can only be made in the pits if the bike to be replaced makes it back to the pits, either under its own power or being pushed by the rider alone?

Hi Gary,

By the requirements of same transponder and numbers this would eliminate any bikes that do not return to the pits.

So some examples could be:

Bike limps back to pits with fuel or electrical gremlin.

Bike comes back on the crash trailer during red or black flag.

So a bike that runs out of gas or pulls off safely and cannot rejoin cannot have the rider hike back with the transponder IMHO.

I am trying to keep an open mind.

THE DOOR#221

I don’t have a problem with this. The likelihood of all the prerequisites being met are pretty slim IMO, but who knows the race that gets saved may be ours.

pd

So…..Pro track Shanny, I blow up on the back straight. I pull off the track into Fabi pits. I remove the transponder and walk back (off track) to the live pits where the transponder gets fastened up to the waiting bike and away I go!

Does this work?

pd

I guess that is a possibility that would be safe for the rider provided you come back outside the fence.

But, that is really a special circumstance.

Back it up by one turn and are you allowed to walk around to get to Fabi? I think not safely.

This is a discussion.

THe DOOR#221

Limited scenario where this is worth it. Only within the first hour.

As a team RPM & Associates fully endorses this idea.

pd

Personally - as long as the transponder gets back to the pit- I think it’s ok.
Yes- safety is paramount and that means there are situations where getting back by foot just isn’t practical.
Like Calabogie. - not a lot of ways to get back to the pits.

Crossing a live track on foot isn’t a great thing, and marshals don’t really need the extra attention taken by trying to watch for a gap in traffic.

The idea behind this is to not completely kill off all that juicy track time if you have an issue early on.

I also don’t think the number has to be the same- as long as it’s recorded on the team form and the tower is notified of the change.
This also brings up the fact that you cannot get out on the track until cleared to do so. This will require a bit of thought. You will have to notify a marshal- or someone with a radio- so it can be noted and the lap count returned to zero.


Mileage only counts on the new bike- so if your bike makes it past half way- you are penalizing yourself in the name of seat time if you switch bikes.

Total transponder laps/mileage should apply.

pd

Dewey wrote:Total transponder laps/mileage should apply.

pd

No- it is an endurance race.
Being able to change out a bike without any consideration in mileage is not fair for the teams that do complete the race on one machine.
This echos WERA rules from back in the day. Except they were stricter in having to have the vin numbers on. File for backup machinery.
The team needs to make a decision on what their preference is- more track time or more mileage.

If the main bike goes out within first hour- I would say the decision is an easy one. You will get greater miles from putting the new bike on track.
If it goes out after the hour. Now the decision becomes more about points than track time.

It’s strategy - not a free lunch.

Endurance racing is as much a test of the machine as it is of the riders. That is a key part of the attraction of endurance racing.

I do not support substitution of bikes during the race. It involves more work for the volunteers and is inherently unfair to teams who do not have access to a replacement bike. The possibility of substitution also depends on which track we are racing at and where one breaks down.

Michael Vinten wrote:Endurance racing is as much a test of the machine as it is of the riders. That is a key part of the attraction of endurance racing.

I do not support substitution of bikes during the race. It involves more work for the volunteers and is inherently unfair to teams who do not have access to a replacement bike. The possibility of substitution also depends on which track we are racing at and where one breaks down.

I am in 100% agreement with you Mike!

To me, the spirit behind endurance racing is to prepare one machine and preserve it the finish time (hopefully in first place). If not, stick to sprint racing.

stevebem wrote:

Michael Vinten wrote:Endurance racing is as much a test of the machine as it is of the riders. That is a key part of the attraction of endurance racing.

I do not support substitution of bikes during the race. It involves more work for the volunteers and is inherently unfair to teams who do not have access to a replacement bike. The possibility of substitution also depends on which track we are racing at and where one breaks down.

I am in 100% agreement with you Mike!

To me, the spirit behind endurance racing is to prepare one machine and preserve it the finish time (hopefully in first place). If not, stick to sprint racing.

I also agree………
However…………
This is club racing. Which means the focus should be on having fun.
Not much that’s less fun than watching an endurance race from the pits when your bike expired/crashed/got taken out (not for dinner!).

We want to be competitive, we want the team to use one bike. The penalty in laps would make it difficult to overcome for the season. But you would still get that much desired saddle time.

Just like the handicap system, we want to encourage- not discourage- participation.

I ran in WERA for many years and have tried to keep the spirit of endurance racing in the club rules.
Even WERA allowed substitutions. But they were more strict - requiring registering VIN numbers before the season.

Could the team scooter be sent out to pick up rider and transponder?

pd

Not a chance…..
Not on a live racetrack.

There is a reason that they stopped putting vehicles on a live track….