Vintage Road Racing Association

The points system would not eliminate the possibility of a tie.
Even in this same scenario.
Having an even number of rounds will mean it’s always possible.
Team A 2 wins 2 second places
Team B 2 wins 2 second places

Provided they finish on the same number of laps at each round means a tie.
In that instance- should it occur. I agre we go back and look at what the margin of victory was at each round and see who has the largest margin.

However.
While we recognize 1st 2nd 3rd etc at each round. As long as those teams finish on the same lap. They essentially score the exact same points.
Because the current point system is strictly laps x track length.

And this is what would technically allow a team to “steal” a championship.
Team A wins 3, second in 1 but due to a long pit stop, finish a lap down in that round they got second in.
Team B finishes 2nd twice and 3rd once but always on the same lead lap. They win 1 race where team A finishes second but a lap down.
With nothing but mileage as a metric - Team B wins championship.

That’s a stolen championship to me. They got beat repeatedly but 1 win gives them the championship.

I do not like this scenario- it was very nearly the scenario we had last season.
The added points matrix ensures this is not possible.
There is always the opportunity to get those points back. It just means you have to beat that team that beat you.
I see nothing unfair in this scenario.

kirbster wrote:The points system would not eliminate the possibility of a tie.
Even in this same scenario.
Having an even number of rounds will mean it’s always possible.
Team A 2 wins 2 second places
Team B 2 wins 2 second places

Provided they finish on the same number of laps at each round means a tie.
In that instance- should it occur. I agre we go back and look at what the margin of victory was at each round and see who has the largest margin.

However.
While we recognize 1st 2nd 3rd etc at each round. As long as those teams finish on the same lap. They essentially score the exact same points.
Because the current point system is strictly laps x track length.

And this is what would technically allow a team to “steal” a championship.
Team A wins 3, second in 1 but due to a long pit stop, finish a lap down in that round they got second in.
Team B finishes 2nd twice and 3rd once but always on the same lead lap. They win 1 race where team A finishes second but a lap down.
With nothing but mileage as a metric - Team B wins championship.

That’s a stolen championship to me. They got beat repeatedly but 1 win gives them the championship.

I do not like this scenario- it was very nearly the scenario we had last season.
The added points matrix ensures this is not possible.
There is always the opportunity to get those points back. It just means you have to beat that team that beat you.
I see nothing unfair in this scenario.

"Provided they finish on the same number of laps at each round means a tie.
In that instance- should it occur. I agre we go back and look at what the margin of victory was at each round and see who has the largest margin."

-we're on the same page on this one


"While we recognize 1st 2nd 3rd etc at each round. As long as those teams finish on the same lap. They essentially score the exact same points.
Because the current point system is strictly laps x track length."

- why are you calling this "points"? It's mileage,or kilometreage,not points.


"And this is what would technically allow a team to “steal” a championship.
Team A wins 3, second in 1 but due to a long pit stop, finish a lap down in that round they got second in.
Team B finishes 2nd twice and 3rd once but always on the same lead lap. They win 1 race where team A finishes second but a lap down.
With nothing but mileage as a metric - Team B wins championship.

That’s a stolen championship to me. They got beat repeatedly but 1 win gives them the championship."

- "Steal" ?, "stolen championship" ?
How about "earn" and "earned championship" by Team B ? They went the farthest-PERIOD. They are the winners. And as long as the VRRA Endurance Series is based on total distance traveled,that's the only way it can be.

"With nothing but mileage as a metric - Team B wins championship."
And that's the way it should be .THEY WENT THE FARTHEST.

Sorry Gary, for all intent and purpose points and miles are the same thing. It’s how we are “scoring” so while they represent miles or km, they are in fact points.
Don’t get hung up on the terminology.

As for your assumption that the final scenario means the team went the furthest. That thought is flawed.
Team b could have been behind by the better part of a lap at the other 3 rounds.
So who went the furthest? Not team B. Not 100%.
Because we only do full laps and we let everyone get the last lap.
It muddies the water.
You can’t have it both ways.

So the “mileage bonus” for finishing places. Ensure the teams have a spread. It may not be accurate but it is a method that works and keeps separation between the finishers. A separation that does exist on the track.

Because if we end the race the same way we did last year. Everyone is given that last lap.

It’s an annual series. If we end up hating points in September we’ll try something else in 2019

So as proposed:

End race same as we always have. Everyone takes the checker.
But we add the “bonus miles” based on finishing position.
This keeps a separation between teams. Because there is one on the track.

BTW the max point spread is 3. Every track we will be on for 2018 are longer than that.
Shannonville long - 4
Calabogie- 5
Mosport -4

And again- no one is as a disadvantage. If you keep finishing behind the team in front of you the gap will grow larger. But the reverse is also true, beat the team to gain it back. Put them a lap down to really gain an advantage.

And it’s all very easy to score and manage. - for the most part.

just as an addition to the discussion.
It has been mentioned several times that we alter the penalties and handicaps to a mileage number rather than number of laps.
Any thoughts on this?
I think there is some merit to this idea as the track lengths do vary, so a longer track equals a larger penalty or handicap compared to a shorter track.

Please let me know your thoughts on this. I am open to suggestions here.
Thanks