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Endurance Team Riders

Discussion regarding all things endurance racing!

Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Percy W » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:03 pm

Not going to reply to every 'minutiae' of your argument on line, or a discussion on what you think 'real racing' may or may not be.
So here's the deal...

The rules are in place. Have been for a while.
With 2 months to the first race I'm not inclined to change it now.
One bike in the race, that has been our rule for a while now.
If a bike breaks down within 20 minutes of the start and the #2 bike is registered as the alternat bike, tech'd and the riders registered on that bike......have at'er. (And that's a concession/departure from the actual rules!)
Otherwise , no dice. Not just to get practice laps and possibly interfere with others racing, not to mention the difficulty in keeping track of a new bike suddenly appearing.
We wouldn't allow it in a sprint race and this is no different.

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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby kirbster » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:43 pm

ok, sorry. Again not trying to piss in anyone's corn flakes here. just going with what i have experienced personally here with the endurance races i have been involved in.

Personally, as an ex WERA national endurance series rider- the bulk of racing i was a part of in the 80's and 90's i get what endurance racing is all about.

I just drifted over to view the WERA rule book, because i really wasn't sure what the rules were with regards to changing bikes. I seemed to recall it could be done (referred to a changing frames) much as i said, but any previously recorded laps were discarded. if the team decided to enter the new bike, then only the laps from the new bike count. Even if it were fewer laps than what were done already.

And the frames have to be registered at the beginning of the season. three frames maximum. That eliminates the "go grab Bobs bike from the parking lot" from happening.

In the end i am actually fine with whatever decision is made (rules are rules).

But all the arguments about difficulty scoring and managing this are still the same if occurs in the first 20 minute or the last 20 minutes.

Better to stick hard and fast- Yes or No, then to introduce exceptions. Exceptions are always the chink in the armour. And introduce the ability to argue.

If a bike goes out 22 minutes into the race - is it really different than 20? or 30?.

So if the reasons for not allowing it are a managing issue. fair enough. then no substitutions. period. no exceptions.

I was only suggesting that being allowed to get some of teh track time you paid for wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially as long as there is no way for teh team to benefit from it.

And healthy discussion only makes a better rule book.

The "real racing thing" seems to hit nerves with some folks. I meant no offense. I just have my own opinions that may or may not fit with everyone else's.

The reality is this entire club is for fun. And that should not be viewed as a negative. Its why we are all here in the first place (or most of us anyway!). Isn't it?
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Dewey » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:51 pm

kirbster wrote:ok, sorry. Again not trying to piss in anyone's corn flakes here.



By the size of the post...I think you just took a shit!
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Dewey » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:58 pm

kirbster wrote: Don't count a single lap. - remove the transponder... At that point your "race" is over. Why not let the guys get some laps in?

I do not see the harm. Only positives.



Until "that" bike pulls a bone head move, causes a "real" racer to crash, And now you have a fist fight in Moss's corner when the latter finds out the former should not have even been out on track.

pd
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby kirbster » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:06 pm

Totally fair argument.

what are the odds that will happen? that the team that brought out the new bike will be involved in an "incident" that is also their fault?

Fault in racing is such a huge variable. and usually depends on where you are standing.

But again. I'm ok with the rules.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby thelittleguy » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:01 pm

Good point Brian.
I was told that we won the lightweight series at the banquet, but no presentation. Did we win ???????
Someone must know.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Ashton Bond » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:19 pm

These are the results as they were sent for awards for the AGM. They never arrived, which was just a shipping glitch on their part. The results are based on the tally from the results spreadsheet on the front page, including penalties and in-class handicaps. Brian will have to remind me/us why the results aren't correct, as honestly I forget why. To make matters worse, and I take responsibility, but I have no clue where any original time sheets are. I was never involved with their tallying. In hind sight, I should keep them, and will going forward, but being my first year, it just didn't cross my mind. If you Steve, and Brian mutually agree there is an issue I'll happily adjust the results. The medals are being presented at the TT.

Endurance Heavyweight- 1st: MBP Ducati

Endurance Middleweight- 1st: Spank Racing, 2nd: Whyte Racing, 3rd: Half-Fast Racing

Endurance lightweight- 1st: Team Tenacious, 2nd: Best Racing, 3rd: Have a Blast Racing
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Dewey » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:43 pm

Last years original time sheets were offered to the club. At that time there was no interest as it was/is water long under the bridge. I may have used them to light fires all winter. I just did a fast check around where the clocks are stored, but no luck. I will keep an eye out, no promises.

It's 2016.....

pd
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Percy W » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:47 pm

Endurance Hvy 2nd......Strange Relics. There were enough Hvy's to award a second place.

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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Ashton Bond » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:36 pm

I only see two Heavy class teams that entered more than one round. According to the trophy policy there must be three or more to award more than one position a year end trophy. On a per/round basis you can do whatever you want. (No you can't, but there's no policy)
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Percy W » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Yes , that's how it looks. However, our heavyweight team you had listed as 'middleweight'. We were definitely heavyweight on our GS1100. I checked the results. 3 heavy in more than one round. 5 in total. We can add 'Strange Relics' as 2nd place.

Not giving top 3 trophies regardless seems a bit cheap, and like we are penalizing the people who actually show up. But that's a 'beef' for another time.


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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby brian-d #43 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:19 pm

Not because I like criticizing but the results posted on the front page are WAAAAY off. They show bike #19 (Mike Vinten's Ducati Pantah) as P3M and give him 5 laps for a handicap. His bike is a P3-Light bike, same as mine. So why was I (bike #43) only given 3 laps handicap at Shannonville and no handicap at CTMP. Also, no results AT ALL for Grand Bend where we should have had AT LEAST 85 laps (and YES, I PERSONNALY handed in my results sheet at the conclusion of the race). I base this on Mike Vinten's 88 laps and the fact that our 3rd rider was Dominic Aubry so certainly my calculation is VERY conservative. So by my CONSERVATIVE calculations:
Shannonville : 76 laps + 5 handicap = 81 X 1.8 = 145.8
Grand Bend : 85 laps + 5 handicap = 90 X 1.8 = 162
CTMP : 36 laps + 5 handicap = 41 X 4 = 164
TOTAL = 471.8
Where does that situate us in our class? WHO was in our class? I thought the lightweight class was to include the P4-F3 bikes like the Holdens (402) but without any handicap. The results sheet shows them with a total of 576.8.

Back to criticizing the results! Team 87 at Grand Bend. 97 laps @ 1.8 = 174.6 and NOT 175.6. Pages 4 and 5 of the results have no classes listed for the teams.

I just don't see how we can award trophies unless we can tally proper results for this series. I have participated in EVERY endurance race with 1 exception (I missed Mosport 3 years ago with a bad back) over the last 10 years. Along with Mike Vinten and Stan Nicholson we won the P3-Light endurance races at Mosport both in 2010 and 2012 as well as winning P1-350 endurance at Mosport on Richard Balmes Honda. But frankly, unless there is a better structure to this series I won't be doing any endurance races this coming year.

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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby kirbster » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:41 pm

Last year thee were some serious issues with properly filled out forms.
Some were very creative.... Some not very legible.
But the form should have what class you are running in listed right on the form.
A lot of teething issues which is why Percy has stepped up to run the show and try and get the new format sorted out and running like a series.

With no records from last year, there will be no settling this.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Dewey » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:57 am

All is not lost...literally!

The 2015 lap sheets have been found. :shock:

Over the next little while Percy and I will attempt to come to a final, I say final conclusion as to who finished where and in what class. He doesn't know this yet. (He does now) l.o.l.

It seems by Mike V's post on the last exec meeting the 2015 awards are to be handed out at the first round.

I know it's April 1st, but this IS the real deal!

Rejoice sports fans.....

pd
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby racerdude413 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:11 am

i can help with figuring out what team was in what class...
Dominic Aubry

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