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Endurance Team Riders

Discussion regarding all things endurance racing!

Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Ashton Bond » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:58 am

Brian- Mike Vinten chose to campaign the Ducati in P3M for the entire 2015 season. Why would I assume that he would choose to tally his endurance results in P3L?? Why would you??? Hence the different calculated handicaps. If he'd like his results re-tallied in P3L it can be done, and possibly this season he can stipulate which class he'd like it run in, I should have clarified that with him at the start.

You should take the time to understand the classes as well before you make additional assumptions that color your usage of capital letters. P4F3 and P4F2 both campaign in middleweight based on lap time calculations. And seriously, your picking a fight over a typo of 174.6 vs 175.6?? Here's the results of that: I recind my offer to adjust the results based on amicable agreement. If you'd like an adjustment made to last year's results, that will need to be in writing, with supporting documentation and the written consent of your racing peers. You've got plenty of time to accomplish that before the TT. I'd suggest working with those that have volunteered to help go through last year's sheets.

As for your threats of non-participation in 2016, the choice to race in the endurance series next year is yours alone. We took a broad brush last year wiping the slate clean to create, from scratch, something that could be developed into a fun and competitive series for more than just the very fastest segment of the club. Guaranteed there was going to be bumps in that road. I choose to stand on the side of honesty and open communication to work as a group to make those bumps disappear. If you choose to take your ball and go home, that's your choice. Choosing to simply criticize the efforts of others AFTER they've already openly offered to help, and with NO effort towards a solution is just wrong, and insulting to the efforts that have been made.

Again, I apologize for any errors made. I have a much firmer grasp on the structure of our organization this year. I look forward to your written findings.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Dewey » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:50 pm

Again, where's the love button on here!
Roadracing motorcycles makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby brian-d #43 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:21 pm

Well, Paul, HERE'S the love button.

Ashton,

I was not picking a fight and it was never my intention to insult you. I think you know that I know how much work you do for this club.


You should take the time to understand the classes as well before you make additional assumptions that color your usage of capital letters. P4F3 and P4F2 both campaign in middleweight based on lap time calculations.

You are right. But it's difficult to understand the classes when I can't find the structure written down.

And seriously, your picking a fight over a typo of 174.6 vs 175.6?? Here's the results of that: I recind my offer to adjust the results based on amicable agreement. If you'd like an adjustment made to last year's results, that will need to be in writing, with supporting documentation and the written consent of your racing peers.

As written at the start of this post, I'm not trying to pick a fight. Just pointing out that the results, as posted, are incomplete and have errors in them. And as for recinding your offer, that is well within your discretion as Competition Coordinator.

As for your threats of non-participation in 2016, the choice to race in the endurance series next year is yours alone.

I wasn't making a threat. It's a simple statement of fact. I'm just following my mantra 'If you ain't having fun, why bother?'

If you choose to take your ball and go home, that's your choice.

Now THIS sounds a little like an attempt to make me look petty and childish. Please don't let this discussion deteriorate into mud throwing.

Choosing to simply criticize the efforts of others AFTER they've already openly offered to help, and with NO effort towards a solution is just wrong, and insulting to the efforts that have been made

Again, NOT trying to be insulting. But in the absence of tangible results it is extremely difficult to propose a solution. All I can do is point out where I KNOW there are errors.

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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Ashton Bond » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:43 pm

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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby jim kots » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:05 am

The flaw with bumping up in the ER is picking up bonus laps for a bike that should complete in a class that isn't receiving or has fewer bonus laps. P3L to P3M, MWProduction or P2L to P2H, P1-500 to P1 Open.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby kirbster » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:53 pm

P1 500 to P1 open is the only fly in the ointment that I can see.
In the other examples you may get a few extra bonus laps but you are now competing in a faster class with a slower bike. Remember there is no overall scoring just by class.
So you pick up an extra couple laps but against bikes that are significantly faster so there's likely no advantage at all. You may actually work against yourself.

There are instances when bumping can give you an advantage- usually when there are few/no entris in that class.
We won the middleweight superbike class at the RACE year end endurance in 1988 on an FZR400 on slicks. The lightweight class was full of fast teams. So we made a strategic decision and it paid off.

That's always a decision the team should make before the start of the season.
Last edited by kirbster on Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby jim kots » Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:40 pm

You are right, I was looking at the overall standing.
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby kirbster » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:43 am

Percy W wrote:Not going to reply to every 'minutiae' of your argument on line, or a discussion on what you think 'real racing' may or may not be.
So here's the deal...

The rules are in place. Have been for a while.
With 2 months to the first race I'm not inclined to change it now.
One bike in the race, that has been our rule for a while now.
If a bike breaks down within 20 minutes of the start and the #2 bike is registered as the alternat bike, tech'd and the riders registered on that bike......have at'er. (And that's a concession/departure from the actual rules!)
Otherwise , no dice. Not just to get practice laps and possibly interfere with others racing, not to mention the difficulty in keeping track of a new bike suddenly appearing.
We wouldn't allow it in a sprint race and this is no different.

Percy


Just looking for clarification on this.
So a B bike is allowed provided:
1. The B bike is registered as the B bike prior to the event.
2. It is tech'd and ready to race.
3. the A bike has broken down in the first 20 minutes of the race and deemed unrepairable.
4. Laps accumulated on the A bike no longer count toward your total.

What about practice? If the B bike is registered, does the team get to practice the B bike as well as the A bike?

Thanks
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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby Percy W » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:03 pm

I would have to go with no, on that. Two bikes at practice does not go with the intent of the race we are trying to run. It also opens up the possibility of a team doubling up their practice time and having two bikes on the track and in the pits. I also don't think you should be preparing for a bike not to make it to the end.
Just bring the bike you want to run. Prepare it well. You will not be given 2 bike spaces in the pits.
If one breaks, tech will have to deem it 'unfixable'. Then a team member may go get the 'b' bike (assuming it has passed your 1-4 points).

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Re: Endurance Team Riders

Postby kirbster » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:02 pm

Thanks Percy, i figured as much but just wanted clarification.
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