Vintage Road Racing Association

this site is quiet. what is everyone doing? must be all kinds of back garage work going on .OK here is one, why dont we go back to the original rules of overhead cam engines of 650 cc displacement. and lets have a real good reason as to why not and why was the rule changed anyway. and dont say because USCRA has it or remember the old 500cc overhead vs 750 flathead stuff or time moves on etc etc

Hi Don, you might look at the Bulletin board "left on the table" which suggest dropping sidecars since only 3-4 show up, and all that track time could go to P5 solo bikes; more cash for the in box etc.
I might well be the fall guy for 750 kits on XS650: when we were going to Loudon early on with the 750 motor (allowed up here) we bitched over having to change the motor for USCRA, which we did a couple of times, and so they changed the rules to harmonize.
another rig for some one else getting close to complete, (colour is dark green with yellow stripe), but regular work intrudes. My guess is that this makes about 14-15 since 1999. pity they don't come out. Paul.

Hi Paul,
Where is the topic line about the VRRA dropping sidecars that you mentioned? I just got back from Florida and must have missed it!
Thanks
Brian

Hi Paul,

Now that I'm not on the Exec any more I can throw in my opinions just like everyone else

The opinion expressed in the thread on the member's forum (Left on the Table) about the need to look at sidecars as a way to make room for P5 is just Dominic's opinion. This was not even considered as part of the AGM agenda and there is no basis for thinking this will ever happen. Chairs have been part of our club for many years and I'd rather see fewer "plastic rockets" than no chairs.

Stan

thanks for looking, yes I am one of those people that doesnt show, but that is another story.but am ready this year and I personally cant the rig will be available to use . as far as 750s are concerned doesnt matter to me we have to compete with overbored BMW s . P5 is that vintage I must be getting old, those guys still in diapers ? as far as the anti sidecar people are concerned, get a grip, you always want it your way and I bet you want to get rid of P1 solos . so get a friend or two put a rig together come out, you will not be disapointed life is interesting three inches off the ground . I guess or I put the 750 question out to see if anyone was out there thanks don

As Stan said, this is just my opinion. i am just one member , one vote, i have no more authority then any other member.

But take your heart out of it for a second, and from a financial sense, they take a lot of time for the financial return. P1 bikes as a comparision, run in the same 3 practices as the other bikes and their races can be combined , so even if just 2 bikes show up (as is the case in P1 200 and Pre65 500) they dont take an additional amount of track time to run because they run and practice with other bikes.

Of course i can see the other side. To alienate the Lakes and the Whittakers after they have given so much to this club would be hard to do.

Thats why my exact words were:

but i beleive that if sidecars dont get bigger numbers soon, they need a hard look at.

A hard look at, thats it, not "get rid of them right now" ...

We cant justify taking a financial risk for one of the best tracks in America, but we are willing to give 3 rigs 1h15 minutes of track time for 330$ VS 40 P5 bikes at 4400$...

Stan Nicholson wrote: Chairs have been part of our club for many years and I'd rather see fewer "plastic rockets" than no chairs.

Stan

BTW my points about sidecars are all from a financial viewpoint. The only point you made so far is: i dont like plastic bikes.

Hi Dominic,

I'm glad you clarified that this was just your opinion and that it wasn't an AGM topic. Personally I did not stay for all of the AGM discussions as I had a few things to attend to.

The line you posted:

Of course i can see the other side. To alienate the Lakes and the Whittakers after they have given so much to this club would be hard to do.

Please take a second to look at those that run sidecars, they are ALL major volunteers...

Ian Bruce - he ran and supported the forum for years and years

Mary Bruce - volunteered at registration for years and years

Dave Minnett - new to sidecars but if it wasn't for him and his wife Heather you would not have had an AGM and Banquet as great as it was.

Whittakers - they have devoted (and still do devote) hours and hours to the VRRA + bike shows - you will never find me standing at the booth as long as they do. They run the sidecar school and Marie is one of the reasons the monkeys are as good as they are.

Lakes - enough said - you know what we do.

Ralf Scholtes - president for numerous years and finally said 'enough' - can't say I blame him, but he's the first to chip in and help where needed now.

That's just 5 sidecars and ALL of them volunteer. The numbers of sidecars are rallying - last year saw 2 of our rigs out with crashes and work place injuries, so hence why there were only 3. There are quite a few rigs sitting in the background that are planning on being out next year, and the numbers will be up.

I keep hearing that Sidecars are what draw the spectators - especially at Mosport - isn't that why we're always last on the schedule there - to keep people at the event? Isnt' that why we have lineups waiting at North Bay, to take parade laps?

Don't give up on us - our numbers will increase.....it's a huge expense to get into a rig so it takes a bit of convincing!

If there are rigs around why are they not for sale ... I thought about having another go but could never find a rig
regards
Paul Cairoli

There you go, if the numbers are there then this conversation will soon be forgoten .... nothing would make me happier then a number increase across the board of sidecars and P1-P2 bikes, then thats means more volunteers, more money etc etc.

I think it is difficult for the VRRA not to have sidecars.
Since you only have 4 club events but you have a mixed showing at 1/2 of those events.
In the last 3 years I have seen anywhere from 4 to 8 (?) rigs at a race (mind you I only attend the Quint & Mosport).
That is a pretty good turn out for one specialized class.

In AHRMA you have the same question and it comes up at almost every event and board meeting.
The 2010 season consisted of 9 locations with 17 points races.
The policy is if 1 shows up they have earned thier track time.
I have raced in a 1 chair race, yippy! and I have raced in a 10+ race, Yea!

I was the one the modernized the AHRMA rules and they mirror both the VRRA & the USCRA rules.
There are a couple of rigs in the mid-west with a couple of more in the works but for now the hot bed of vintage
sidecar racing is the VRRA or the USCRA.

While sidecars may be the freak show at an event it still gets people to the event provided it is know that they will be there.

Thanks for the imput roger, that is one of the problems actually... we get good numbers at mosport, OK numbers at Shannonville , but not great at Quebec and North bay (depending on the year of course).

What if we had sidecars only at Nelso and Mosport? would we get even bigger numbers then for these 2 races? Maybe a Can-AM series with USCRA?

Just suggestions...

racerdude413 wrote:What if we had sidecars only at Nelso and Mosport? would we get even bigger numbers then for these 2 races? Maybe a Can-AM series with USCRA?
Just suggestions...

I would love to have a true Can-Am series personally but to do that we would also need the participation of those in AHRMA south of the border rather than an East vs.West series.

Now we are talking travel and it seems that Canadians (no offense ment here) don't like to travel south of the border or stray very far from home.
When I come up to participate it is just short of 8 hours to Shannonville arriving near midnight Friday only to race back so I can be at work at 6 am Monday morning, I tend to look like this when I get to work
The same thing for Mosport basically.
Loudon is something like 12 hours for me if I remember right. I was there only once when it didn't conflict with some other race weekend.

I think the way to plan a series like this would be continue to have the 4 events and decide as a club if sidecars are to participate at all events or just the Quinte and Mosport.

The points races would be the Quinte, Mosport then pick 2 races with the USCRA and 2 events with AHRMA.
As organizations we would have to agree what races would count to this series however sidecars would be welcome anytime.

Scoring would be 1st thru number of rigs on the start.
DNF's count in relationship to when they would have finished ie. last

The best 5 finishes count, high score wins. Remember that each AHRMA has 2 scored races, not heat races.
In the event of a tie they will be broken by number of place finishes (1st, 2nd,etc.) and then
if all is still tied passengers age in the last race will be the final tie breaker

Championships to the 1st place driver and 1st place passenger for those of us who monkee around.
There would be no designation between P-1 or P-2 just sidecars.
P-3 side cars are welcome to play but would not be scored in the series but would be scored at the events.

I think the Lakes will be making a couple of trips to the US in 2011 as we'll be concentrating on chair racing.

Couple of points: The VRRA is not about making money, it's about racing old bikes. Sure it must be financially viable but I don't think P5 is the answer. One thing to consider is there are plenty of competing venues for those bikes to run, not so much for older bikes and certainly none in Canada for sidecars. I think the challenge for the people that wish to introduce P5 is to figure out how to do it without ruining a venue of small but enthusiatic P1 and P2 racers.

Mal

Rob and I will be out again next season, and yes Roger, we will come down to the US to have fun!!!
The VRRA is our home club and will race here as well.
Thanks
Brian