Vintage Road Racing Association

As promised, here are the schedules for ALL four VRRA racing weekends events.

https://www.vrra.ca/2024-race-schedules/

Now you can plan well ahead and know what to expect.
Class bump ups are spread out through the day.
Back to backs are still possible but have been minimized for the most part.

Feedback is always welcome.


Timothy Sauder
Competition Coordinator

Thanks Timothy. This is really useful.

I was going to get the GPZ550 running this year and I also have a TA125 I was going to run, but they are both running at the same time. I can now focus on one or the other.

It's a hell of lot better than the old system where you only found out 3 days before

Hi friends...

I too love that the schedules have been posted early so we all can prepare our bikes and know what we are riding this season.

What I will also say is that the schedule it seems is causing an issue for many riders myself included.

We found vrra through the modern lightweight invitational and fell in love with the org. I have been hunting for my real vintage bike ever since...and this summer I finally found her and began the rebuild. Now I see the schedule and it directly conflicts with modern light. And p4f2 running together. And as Dwayne and I will likely be sharing this bike...it'll reduce how much we can ride. And I tend to ride in every class me and my bikes will fit into...as of right now Ive decided to put the build on hold as I'm not willing to test a bike at the expense of possibly not riding at all if there are issues. I'm betting like us lots of modern light riders may consider a vintage bike but will want a more modern p4 or p5 eligible bike for reliability and plug and play value. My hurricane will be that bike but as of now I have limited races to compete in and it makes more sense to rebuild as a street bike unless this schedule changes...once it a street bike it'll stay that way and we will just come to the odd event if moderns are invited. We (modern lights) have been treated like a cash cow to help keep the club afloat as we are invited only when Funda are low...when funds are high...we get told your welcome to endurance race...ya great one day thanks but no thanks to much expense involved for a 1 day event...but I digress. Here's hoping the schedule can change so my race purpose vrra eligible bike doesn't get relogated to the street.

I also understand that scheduling can be impossible to accommodate everyone that's a tall order for a 3 day event...but let's try to figure out a schedule that at least allows more racers to race. Back to back doesn't bother me a bit...but making a choice between which bike I want to ride does bother me to the point I just won't bother with a vintage bike.

The Screamer 248 wrote:Hi friends...

I too love that the schedules have been posted early so we all can prepare our bikes and know what we are riding this season.

What I will also say is that the schedule it seems is causing an issue for many riders myself included.

We found vrra through the modern lightweight invitational and fell in love with the org. I have been hunting for my real vintage bike ever since...and this summer I finally found her and began the rebuild. Now I see the schedule and it directly conflicts with modern light. And p4f2 running together. And as Dwayne and I will likely be sharing this bike...it'll reduce how much we can ride. And I tend to ride in every class me and my bikes will fit into...as of right now Ive decided to put the build on hold as I'm not willing to test a bike at the expense of possibly not riding at all if there are issues. I'm betting like us lots of modern light riders may consider a vintage bike but will want a more modern p4 or p5 eligible bike for reliability and plug and play value. My hurricane will be that bike but as of now I have limited races to compete in and it makes more sense to rebuild as a street bike unless this schedule changes...once it a street bike it'll stay that way and we will just come to the odd event if moderns are invited. We (modern lights) have been treated like a cash cow to help keep the club afloat as we are invited only when Funda are low...when funds are high...we get told your welcome to endurance race...ya great one day thanks but no thanks to much expense involved for a 1 day event...but I digress. Here's hoping the schedule can change so my race purpose vrra eligible bike doesn't get relogated to the street.

I also understand that scheduling can be impossible to accommodate everyone that's a tall order for a 3 day event...but let's try to figure out a schedule that at least allows more racers to race. Back to back doesn't bother me a bit...but making a choice between which bike I want to ride does bother me to the point I just won't bother with a vintage bike.

When we used series tracker in the past- it had its issues, but one thing it allowed us to do was build the race weekend around those that were actually committed to being there by preregistering.
This is also why a schedule was never released until just before the race weekend.
The system allowed us to see conflicts and back to backs and try and shuffle the deck the most efficiently we could.

The new system is more user friendly but at the cost of not necessarily being able to do what ST did.

This is a double-edged sword- yes- knowing months in advance has a purpose. But may still not be helpful for those in your particular situation. The vast number of classes that have to be scheduled together makes this a difficult task at the best of times.
There will always be conflicts and back to backs even with the best planning.

As for modern lightweight being a cash cow....
Well, the class has been running since it was decided that it was a good fit, and that it gave more riding opportunities to riders on them - the thought was it is a development class. And young riders looking to work their way up the ladder in CSBK or other series- have the ability to get more saddle time- the best spent money in rider development.
It also added a little to our operating budget..
It is not an official class in the VRRA rule book, so technically it's always been an invitational. It is the executives decision whether or not to continue it, but I think most recognize that it has been a good choice and has helped the club financially as well.
It is a win-win and not one sided as your comment tends to make it feel.
Hopefully this can be sorted as P4F2 is a dwindling class.... Getting folks to join it should possibly be a priority?

I have no direct line to the executive at this point but can only add the above based on my knowledge of how modern light came to be in the VRRA along with my years as competition coordinator.

The advantage of knowing ahead of time is that you have plenty of time to acquire a bike if you so choose that does not conflict with a current bike.

Under previous scheduling you may have found out the week before.

Or one event has no conflict and the next it does.

There is no uncertainty with this system. It was discussed at the AGM and nothing but positive feedback.

Dave

I'm a big fan of the schedules set early, makes life much simpler.
Thanks Tim!

Thank you for the reply Kirby, I recall a year we were not invited 2018 or 2021 seems to be my memory but I could be wrong. Rider development is always a good plan for the sport as a whole...its also a bike that older riders gravitate to being small displacement and a simple bike to maintain. At least for those who don't want to be tinkering and tuning all the time. And I always appreciate your input. So thank you.

As for the bike I chose...Its not generally a consideration to consult a race schedule and buy based on that...as that can change from round to round or year to year etc this isn't how I choose my bike. My hurricane was chosen because it IS my first ever street bike which I sold years ago to a vrra rider who turned it into a race bike...I recently found that bike for sale this past summer and of course I bought it back. It's a piece of my personal history and the only bike I ever regretted selling. I would have bought it back for the purpose of bringing her back to life and restoring at least mechanically and possibly esthetically as well even if I never race her. I do want to race her because why not...the club exists and I've historically enjoyed the the entirety of the club to the point I began volunteering my time when we weren't racing...in fact I often volunteer my entire weekend to the point hubby feels abandoned cuz he has to fend for himself both in the pits and in the kitchen. With this bike it was my idea to get more racing in...and get my butt out to the last shannonville round which we have missed the last couple years due to life or hubby wrecking himself like last year. The only round we don't attend is round 1 as it conflicts with our modern bike series to which we have 2 bikes each that we race.

I completely understand that schedules are a pita at the best of times...and there will always be someone who gets the short end of that stick. I get that...I wanted to have my vintage bike so that I don't have to rely of that "invitational modern light" and I chose the bike...like many or maybe even most riders would...from their younger days...the bikes they started on...thats what I did...I wanted modern enough to be relatively reliable...I got that too. Now it just feels like we would have more track time on the moderns and nevermind the Vintage as that's a bike we would share. I guess we will see what happens...as I said I have no issues racing back to back races...but I can't ride 2 bikes at the same time.

I appreciate the work by the execs. Setting the schedule for the season and trying to satisfy a majority of the members is not an easy task. I think there are more positives than negatives, so from me a big thank you. Feedback is always required - both positive and negative and should be kept in a manner so that both sides can respect and be respected for their comments in order to find middle ground. Middle ground may not always come swiftly to ones liking but that should be the goal year over year.
Being on the executive for 3 years I do know first hand the challenges presented to the club on so many levels, not all members may see or understand what's behind the curtain. The comment about the club being a cash cow. That hits a nerve. The VRRA is a non profit group of motorcycle nuts that love to race bikes and has no intent to make any profit. None of the execs are paid and volunteer hundreds of hours, only to receive a discount on some of their races. The clubs main interest is to survive in a space that is becoming ever so challenging to survive in. The VRRA just wants to allow the members to enjoy themselves in friendly competition year over year and must come up with creative ideas to allow that to happen. If not the club will cease to exist. I understand changes happen and countermeasure must occur in order to sustain the club. In my case I have 2 GP bikes that use to run in separate GP classes. Sure I am saddened that the class folded but I understand it was required for the club to sustain and I support the decision. With the schedule up front now I can see ahead of time which classes my bikes will fit into and decide what I need to do in order to prep them. Looking forward to the 2024 season.
"be the change you want to see"

Well said John, and I agree 100% with everything you said.

Cindy, your Hurricane fits into several other races besides it's native class, including vintage open(Junior or Senior), and bumps up to P5F2/P4F1 and P5F1.

Get an older and smaller race bike and you can race pretty much all day!

steinke wrote:I appreciate the work by the execs. Setting the schedule for the season and trying to satisfy a majority of the members is not an easy task. I think there are more positives than negatives, so from me a big thank you. Feedback is always required - both positive and negative and should be kept in a manner so that both sides can respect and be respected for their comments in order to find middle ground. Middle ground may not always come swiftly to ones liking but that should be the goal year over year.
Being on the executive for 3 years I do know first hand the challenges presented to the club on so many levels, not all members may see or understand what's behind the curtain. The comment about the club being a cash cow. That hits a nerve. The VRRA is a non profit group of motorcycle nuts that love to race bikes and has no intent to make any profit. None of the execs are paid and volunteer hundreds of hours, only to receive a discount on some of their races. The clubs main interest is to survive in a space that is becoming ever so challenging to survive in. The VRRA just wants to allow the members to enjoy themselves in friendly competition year over year and must come up with creative ideas to allow that to happen. If not the club will cease to exist. I understand changes happen and countermeasure must occur in order to sustain the club. In my case I have 2 GP bikes that use to run in separate GP classes. Sure I am saddened that the class folded but I understand it was required for the club to sustain and I support the decision. With the schedule up front now I can see ahead of time which classes my bikes will fit into and decide what I need to do in order to prep them. Looking forward to the 2024 season.
"be the change you want to see"

With all due respect John, I don’t understand the reason such a drastic change in scheduling is suddenly a necessity. In the time I’ve been with the club, both Ashton and Kirby managed to keep everyone safe, keep track time to a maximum, and fit most into the classes they wanted to register for.
Being someone who races several classes, it hit me a shock that we had unilaterally decided to implement this scheduling style after simple stating at the AGM that it was an idea that was being proposed.
I just ordered 600$ of parts for a bike that I started building last summer for a class that now is run with my other bike (p4f3 / p3m)..
Note that this does not just affect someone like me who has two different bikes (or more). For anyone running only a period 3 light bike, they have now lost their second bump up which is p4f3.

I also am debating if I will be running p4f1 now knowing that EVERY round except the last, it will be a back to back. I don’t mind back to backs, but committing to a whole season of them is pretty aggravating.

I Went from having plans (and working on bikes to run)

P4F1
P4F3
P5f2
P3M
and
P3L

To now potentially only running P3L and P3M...

It doesn't seem like we are going to increase entries this way.

Could I run in p4f2 instead? Yes, but that is not its native class and I would be outgunned.
Could I run in vintage open junior? Yes, but I'd be sandbagging, senior I would be highly outgunned.

Could I run the p5f2 in p5f1? Yes, but I would be highly underpowered.

There is no perfect solution here, but this is very frustrating as this "pre fixed" scheduling is something that was supposed-to be discussed on an open forum with the membership, but just the executive.

Also, where did these other three invitational classes mysteriously appear from? I know two were discussed at the AGM, but again, this was supposed to be discussed with the membership. In addition, according to our rule-book, no such classes exist. Any "open" or "challenge" classes must have bikes that meet equipment requirements of the club.
Modern lightweight bypasses this rule somehow, originally I understood we voted on it, but that does not seem to be the case, however these bikes are slower than the faster bike of Vintage Open so it’s a non-issue for riders running for a championship.

I appreciate the effort Tim has put in to the schedule, but this is very disappointing. I'm currently building 3 bikes and prepping my 2 others for the 2024 season, and now two of them may or may not get ridden.

I also appreciate the work involved...I get that these positions take up alot of time and I also am grateful to those that step up.

The cash cow comment was only meant as I feel as though the money modern lights bring is helping to float the club nothing about profit in my statement and its invalid if I was incorrect in my memory of the invite being revoked one year within the last 7 ish years.

As for the hurricane of course it fits in other categories but it's meant to be run in its native class where it has its best chance at success...remember it may not be me riding it in all the classes it fits...Dwayne might wanna give it a go too hes actually fast enough to run up front...i am out for fun...so then whomever wants to ride it has to pick a bike...yes it also fits in other classes which I will likely enter some or all of as for Vintage Open...its the only modern light bump.

as for buy a smaller bike...I have one...its my ninja 400...I chose my vintage bike because thats what i want permission not needed...not to mention it was bought before any of this schedule change was even a whisper in my ear. I bought it because I love it and I can race it or street ride it I bought it because it's mine!

Great comments here and I appreciate everyone's hard work.

To Tim and anyone else (Dave?) that worked on this scheduling thank you so much.
When we used to do it with only three periods it was difficult enough. With the expansion of later classes I really don't know how you keep as many people happy as you do.
Cheers Paul

Thought about the schedules a bit today and here is a possible alternative I've come up with for scheduling that could solve the issues above while still achieving what I believe end goal here is.

If we were to null the scheduled pairings currently posted and allow people to register per usual ( for all rounds) until the deadline for online registration of round 1, we could then use the registration for round one and any other pre-registration for rounds 2-4 to establish the seasons scheduling.

This makes it so we should lose little to no ridership, while also giving incentive to register in advance for those that don't attend all rounds.

This makes it so only one round is complex to schedule, but it keeps the ridership mostly happy.

Food for thought as I really don't think the way to attract more riders is by limiting the classes they can run in.
This is a compromise and new riders have to do the school. So they just need to select their race classes for round 1 and they should be happy all season.

Food for thought.

I'd really like to hope you consider this as it would be the best of both worlds.

I had planned to run the following;
- 1982 Yamaha Vision 550 - Native class P3L in P3L and P3M
- 1989 FZR400 framed xz550 in P4F3 (This bike was raced with Ahrma in the late 90s and I shipped it across from Washington state partially complete last fall in order to get it back on track this season)
- 1992 Ducati 900SS in P4F1
- 1996 Ducati 748 in P5f2

I also had planned to run a 6th class at 1 or two rounds. p1-500 on a Honda Cb450.

Kevin

You can run the following
Vision P3L Native Bump to either P3M or P4F3 Then Fzr in Open Jr
Your FZR also bumps to P4F2 which has very few true F2 bikes

Either option Races 1,4,9,11

900SS P4F1 bump to P5F1 and Open Sr
Duc 748 P5F2 instead of 900ss plus P5F1 and Open Sr

So 2 bikes total race options race 3,5,7

With 5 bikes you have to make choices but you can run
1,3,4,5,7,9,11

The P1500 can run race 6,8

No matter what, you have options.

If you don’t want a back to back you can still ride every second race.

Have fun.

The combinations, order and rotation has been meticulously crafted.

We all agree that the schedule is set.

Dave

Ok that's that then I will not be running my vintage bike this yr. I won't be available to volunteer but I will bring my modern to one event. Dwayne may attend a second event on his own. I will continue my restoration of the bike mechanically and see what 2025 brings. If we can't make it viable through scheduling by then it'll he a street bike. Your decision is set and you'll loose ALL entry fees for any of the classes the hurricane would fit. And my attendance throughout the other 3 rounds. My focus will be soar.